Thursday, January 24, 2008

Think You Know All There Is About Oklahoma City?

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From: <>Jennifer
Date: Jan 23, 2008 10:19 AM

Think You Know All There Is About Oklahoma City???

----------------- >HypoChris
Date: Jan 23, 2008 6:10 AM

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From: >Anti-NWO
Date: Jan 23, 2008 6:20 AM

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From:>dont B stupid U moron! (@T@)
Date: Jan 23, 2008 6:45 AM

Brian Says FOX News SUCKS!!![RONPAUL2008.COM]>Listen here. <<<

Visibility 9-11 Begins Special Report Coverage of the OKC Bombing

Referred to by many as The Prelude to 9-11, the events of April 19th, 1995 are significant in that we would see many of the same techniques used to cover-up the OKC bombing as we would later see in 2001 after September 11th. The bombing in Oklahoma City can be seen as a test put forth to the American people, to see how much the "powers that be" could get away with. We at Visibility 9-11 urge all of our listeners to research and study the OKC bombing case and to help spread the word about the ongoing 12+ year cover-up in Oklahoma.

We begin our Special Report on the OKC bombing with Oklahoma City Bombing survivor VZ Lawton. Mr. Lawton discusses his experiences on April 19, 1995 when multiple bombs ripped through the Alfred P. Murrah federal building in Oklahoma City. One hundred and sixty eight people were killed that day in an event which has been widely compared to the events of 9-11, some referring to the bombing as the 'Prelude to 9-11'. Mr. Lawton also discusses his work with the Oklahoma City Bombing Investigation Committee and the current efforts to get a Congressional investigation about what really happened in OKC.

Our special report on the Oklahoma City bombing continues and welcomes Oklahoma State Representative Charles Key. Representative Key was in office on the day of April 19, 1995 when multiple bombs ripped through the Alfred P. Murrah federal building in Oklahoma City. One hundred and sixty eight people were killed and scores of others injured as a result of, what was then, the worst terrorist act on American soil. Rep. Key has led the only real investigation into the bombing and discusses important information about the OKC bombing which contradicts the official story put out by the Justice Department and the FBI. Representative Key, without hesitation also voices a disbelief in the official story of 9-11.

Charles is the founder of the Oklahoma City Bombing Investigation Committee and continues to work toward bringing out the truth about what happened in OKC on April 19, 1995.

Intermission music by Walker T. Ryan.
Ending music by J.E. Fowler.

----------------- Bulletin Message -----------------
From: FatesWebb
Date: Jan 11, 2008 4:55 PM

A GOVERNERs brother wrote the book The Final Jihad: When the "Best of the Worst" Finally Come for Us

There were 3 bombs in the building not just one…


before the oklahoma city bombings occurred. In the book Tom McVeigh does the same exact thing that Tim McVeigh did in real life. But I am sure you will tell me it is a cooincidence down to the only difference being that his name was tom and not tim? =I dont think so.

- In early April 1995 a Ryder truck identical to the one used in the bombing was filmed by a pilot during an overflight of of an area near Camp Gruber-Braggs, Oklahoma. A June 17th, 1997 Washington Post article authenticates the photos as being exactly what they appear to be, photos of a Ryder truck in a clandestine base at Camp Gruber-Braggs. Why were the military in possession of a Ryder truck housed in a remote clandestine army base days before the Alfred P. Murrah bombing?

- In a 1993 letter to his sister, McVeigh claimed that he was approached by military intelligence and had joined an "elite squad of government paid assassins." McVeigh often contradicted himself and changed his story on a whim to fit in with the latest government version of events. Is the Camp Grafton footage evidence of McVeigh's enrollment in such a clandestine program?

- The FBI claimed McVeigh scouted the Alfred P. Murrah building weeks before the bombing and yet on the morning of the attack he stopped at a local gas station to ask directions.

- Original reports of two explosions and several failed devices being defused by bomb squads were buried by the establishment as the official explanation that McVeigh acted alone was pushed.

- Many eyewitnesses reported that bomb squads in full reaction gear were seen around the building immediately before the blast.



Oklahoma City bombing conspirator Terry Nichols says a high-ranking FBI official "apparently" was directing Timothy McVeigh in the plot to blow up a government building and might have changed the original target of the attack, according to a new affidavit filed in U.S. District Court in Utah.

The official and other conspirators are being protected by the federal government "in a cover-up to escape its responsibility for the loss of life in Oklahoma," Nichols claims in a Feb. 9 affidavit.

Documents that supposedly help back up his allegations have been sealed to protect information in them, such as Social Security numbers and dates of birth.

The U.S. Attorney's Office in Utah had no comment on the allegations. The FBI and Justice Department in Washington, D.C., also declined comment.

Nichols does not say what motive the government would have to be involved in the bombing.

The affidavit was filed in a lawsuit brought by Salt Lake City attorney Jesse Trentadue, who believes his brother's death in a federal prison was linked to the Oklahoma City bombing. The suit, which seeks documents from the FBI under the federal Freedom of Information Act, alleges that authorities mistook Kenneth Trentadue for a bombing conspirator and that guards killed him in an interrogation that got out of hand.

Trentadue's death a few months after the April 19, 1995, bombing was ruled a suicide after several investigations. The government has adamantly denied any wrongdoing in the death.

In his affidavit, Nichols says he wants to bring closure to the survivors and families of the attack on the Alfred B. Murrah Federal Building, which took 168 lives. He alleges he wrote then-Attorney General John Ashcroft in 2004, offering to help identify all parties who played a role in the bombing but never got a reply.

Nichols is serving a life sentence at the U.S. Penitentiary Administrative Maximum Facility in Florence, Colo. McVeigh, who carried out the bombing, was executed in 2001.

McVeigh and Nichols were the only defendants indicted in the bombing. However, Nichols alleges others were involved.

McVeigh told him he was recruited for undercover missions while serving in the military, according to Nichols. He says he learned sometime in 1995 that there had been a change in bombing target and that McVeigh was upset by that.

"There, in what I believe was an accidental slip of the tongue, McVeigh revealed the identity of a high-ranking FBI official who was apparently directing McVeigh in the bomb plot," Nichols says in the affidavit.

Nichols also says that McVeigh threatened him and his family to force him to rob Roger Moore, an Arkansas gun dealer, of weapons and explosives. He later learned the robbery was staged so Moore, who was in on the phony heist, could deny any knowledge of the bombing plot if the stolen items were traced back to him, Nichols claims.

He adds that Moore allegedly told his attorney that he would not be prosecuted in connection with the bombing because he was a "protected witness."

Moore could not be reached for comment Tuesday.

In addition, Nichols says McVeigh must have had help building the bomb. The device he and McVeigh built the day before the bombing did not resemble the one that ultimately was used, Nichols says, and "displayed a level of expertise and sophistication" that neither man had.

Original reports of two explosions and several failed devices being defused by bomb squads were buried by the establishment as the official explanation that McVeigh acted alone was pushed. Scientific analysis conducted by General Benton K. Partin revealed core columns were blown out from within the building and the extensive damage to the Alfred P. Murrah building was completely inconsistent with the explanation of a single and relatively weak fertilizer truck bomb.

Intro to the Oklahoma City Bombing Report

PART ONE: Bomb Damage Analysis

PART TWO: Analysis of Graphic Evidence

PART THREE: Analysis of Photographic Evidence

PART FOUR: Conclusion and Appendix

Letter from Heidelberg to Judge David L. Russel

Response to Heidelberg from Judge David L. Russel

Letter from Gen Partin to U.S. Sen. Trent Lott

Resume of Brig. Gen. Benton R. Partin USAF (Ret.)

- Many eyewitnesses reported that bomb squads in full reaction gear were seen around the building immediately before the blast. Police officer Terence Yeakey, who helped save dozens of victims, was one such witness. Yeakey compiled extensive files on his observations but was later found with his throat and wrists slashed having also been shot in the head after he had told friends he was being followed by authorities.

- Several individuals received prior warning that the bombing was about to take place. Bruce Shaw, who rushed to the Murrah building to find his wife who was employed there with the Federal Credit Union, testified that an ATF agent told him that ATF staff had been warned on their pagers not to come to work that day.

The Trentadue Documents

The following documents can be viewed by clicking the links below, and they can also be navigated in order from the first page.

With all of these documents, the important point to remember is that the FBI has fought against disclosing them, despite various legal obligations to do so, including as part of discovery in the federal trials of Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols. The author of this Web site does not necessarily stipulate that every lead reported within the documents is provably true, but many of them are highly credible and all of them are worthy of further journalistic investigation.

The documents were filed as exhibits in Jesse Trentadue's FOIA lawsuit against the FBI and have been credibly authenticated during the course of those proceedings. They were provided to INTELWIRE by Trentadue. The dates provided usually reflect the date the document was created, but in some cases may reflect the date the document was received and filed by FBI headquarters.

Some documents contain signficant redactions. The documents were provided to Trentadue in redacted form by an undisclosed source. One document has additional redactions added by INTELWIRE out of privacy concerns. The specific redaction is noted in the index below, and an unredacted version is available for mainstream journalists interested in pursuing this story.


..White supremacists planned to bomb U.S. targets

..Unnamed suspect may have assisted McVeigh

This redacted document is connected to the OKBOMB investigation (the FBI's code name for the Oklahoma City bombing). The teletype discusses a report from an undisclosed individual regarding Elohim City, a white separatist compound in Vian, OK. Court records confirm that McVeigh telephoned the complex shortly before the OKC bombing, and numerous reports have suggested links between McVeigh and Nichols, Elohim City and the Aryan Republican Army, a bank robbery gang whose members were white separatists who stated that the proceeds of their robberies would be used to fund terrorist attacks on the U.S. government.

On page two of the document, an unidentified informant (name redacted) is quoted as saying that unidentified individuals at Elohim City have explosive devices which they intend to use on various targets around the U.S. Meetings on such plans are described, but the names of the participants have been redacted.

On page three of the document, the writer states that "[redacted name] also indicated that [redacted name] may have assisted McVeigh in the Oklahoma City bombing."


..McVeigh phone call to Elohim City, 4/17/1995

..Suspect cited for relationship to McVeigh

..4/17 call was to seek additional conspirators

This document dealing with BOMBROB, the bank robbery investigation involving Richard Guthrie, has been significantly redacted. However, it states that "Information has been received through the Southern Poverty Law Center that one [name redacted], aka [name redacted], [redacted] telephone call from Timothy McVeigh, on or about 4/17/1995, two days prior to the OKBOMB attack, when [name redacted], per a source at the SPLC, was in the white supremacist compound at [redacted], OK. [name redacted] allegedly has a lengthy relationship with Timothy McVeigh, one of the two indicted OKBOMB defendants. The source of the SPLC advised that [name redacted] is currently residing with [name redacted] in [redacted], N.C., and plans to leave the U.S. via Mexico in the near future."

"Prior OKBOMB investigation determined that McVeigh had placed a telephone call to Elohim City on 4/5/1995, a day that he was believed to have been attempting to recruit a second conspirator to assist in the OKBOMB attack (emphasis added by INTELWIRE)."


..McVeigh phone calls detailed

..BOMBROB suspects summoned by phone from Phila.

On the second page of this teletype from FBI headquarters to the Philadelphia office of the FBI (involved in the BOMBROB investigation), the following passage appears:

"Information has been developed that [names redacted] were at the home of [name redacted] Elohim City, Oklahoma, on 4/5/1995 when OKBOMB subject, Timothy McVeigh, placed a telephone call from [redacted] residence to [redacted] residence in Philadelphia division. BOMBOB subjects [names redacted] left [redacted] residence on 4/16/1995 en route to Pittsburgh (sic), Kansas, where they joined [name redacted] and Guthrie."

Some of the Aryan Republican Army bank robbery suspects lived in Philadelphia. The ARA maintained a safe house in Pittsburg, Kansas.


..SPLC informant information discussed

..McVeigh meeting with unnamed suspect in 1993

As has been reported elsewhere, the Southern Poverty Law Center (an independent organization that monitors hate group activity in the U.S.) maintained an informant in Elohim City. The reports of this informant have become the center of much ensuing controversy regarding the OKC investigation. This OKBOMB document summarizes information obtained through this avenue.

The document states: "With regard to [redacted] wherein Timothy McVeigh met [redacted] being in November 1993, the information was actually that it was approximately 18 months before the bombing." The rest of the report appears to represent speculation on the part of the informant, but certain sections are so heavily redacted that it is impossible to know for sure.


..Redacted information on suspect links

This OKBOMB case teletype also discusses information obtained from the SPLC. The document is OKBOMB related and refers to relationships between individuals whose names have been redacted.


..Heavily redacted

..McVeigh 4/17 call to suspect identified

..Suspect reported to plan flight from country

This heavily redacted OKBOMB document contains extensive information on individuals whose names have been excised. According to the teletype, the FBI in Oklahoma "has received information [redacted name] may be an associate of Timothy McVeigh. (According to the SPLC informant,) "McVeigh attempted to telephonically contact [redacted] on or about April 17, 1995, while [name redacted] was residing in Elohim City."

Massive portions of the page that follows are redacted but appear to contain reports from numerous confidential witnesses (CW) relating to the above claim. On the subsequent page, an informant reports "[redacted passage] because things were 'too hot out there.' CW understood that [redacted] was referring to the bombing of the Oklahoma City federal building."


..Relationships to McVeigh discussed

..McVeigh 4/17 call again discussed

..Elohim City reaction to McVeigh arrest

Another OKBOMB case document referencing information from the SPLC informant. According to the document, "In November 1993, [redacted] met Timothy McVeigh [long passage redacted] is described as a white male, DOB (date of birth) [redacted] POB (place of birth) [redacted]. He is a [redacted] who [redacted] with help from [redacted] somewhere in [redacted] and [redacted]. Allegedly, McVeigh and [redacted] became associates because of their common background in [redacted].

"[redacted] was [redacted] at Elohim City, Oklahoma. On 4/17/95, McVeigh called Elohim City and spoke with a female who answered the phone. He asked to speak to [redacted].

"Sources have told [redacted] that [redacted] Elohim City anywhere from two days before the Oklahoma City bombing to two weeks before the bombing. [redacted] latest information is that [redacted] of Elohim City, saw McVeigh being led out of the courthouse on television and at that time, [redacted] was told to [redacted]."

Virtually all of the remaining document is redacted, except for a notation that the information may be valuable to the FBI's legat (legal attache) in London, who was investigating the background of an individual whose name has been redacted.


..Andreas Strassmeir likely subject of document

..Documents seized by OK police, contents redacted

Although this document has been heavily redacted, one can reasonably speculate that it deals with German national Andreas Strassmeir, an Elohim City resident who has been linked to the BOMBROB suspects and also to the Oklahoma City investigation. Strassmeir was the son of a high-ranking German government official, according to British newspaper The Guardian. Strassmeir reportedly met McVeigh at a gun show in 1993.

The teletype says that [name redacted] may be an associate of Timothy McVeigh," and reiterates several phrases from the teletype of 1/20/96, suggesting both documents may primarily concern Strassmeir (who reportedly fled the country in 1996).

Even more importantly in terms of furthering this investigation, the teletype states that it provided to the FBI several documents received from confidential sources regarding Elohim City. "Among these documents were documents [redacted] relating to [redacted] Some documents have the heading [redacted]. One document appears to be a [redacted] dated [redacted]. One document [redacted] is entitled [redacted]. This document certifies that [redacted]. The course included instruction in [redacted]."

The remainder of the document is heavily redacted, often inexplicably so, such as the removal of apparent references to Terry Nichols and Michael Fortier, known subjects in the investigation whose identities hardly need to be concealed.


..Informant gave ATF prior warning of attacks

..Evidence of ATF warnings intentionally suppressed

The following sections of court transcripts record a sealed hearing concerning ATF informant Carol Howe, a resident of Elohim City at the time of the bombing. This material was suppressed, apparently with the explicit purpose of excluding it from consideration in the trial of Timothy McVeigh.

The transcript indicates that Ms. Howe had previously been an informant for the ATF and was re-activated after the Oklahoma City bombing. Ms. Howe's ATF handler was questioned during the hearing. The explosive portion of the transcript (click here) states that Ms. Howe informed the ATF -- prior to the Oklahoma City bombing -- that Andy Strassmeir had threatened to bomb U.S. federal buildings, and that Howe accompanied Elohim City residents on a trip to Oklahoma City of unclear intent.

In the presiding judge's own words, "We have got evidence that the ATF took a trip with somebody who said that buildings were going to be blown up in Oklahoma City before it was blown up, or something of that nature."


..Informant reports OKC suspicions regarding alleged white supremacist

This report details an informant's conversation with Dave Hollaway, a Special Forces veteran with alleged ties to white supremacist groups. The information in this report is unsubstantiated and should not be construed as evidence of guilt, but the document is clearly relevant to the OKBOMB investigation and is included here as such.

According to the document, Hollaway was associated with CAUSE, a white supremacist foundation and had acted as an intermediary on occasion between the federal government and militant white supremacist groups. According to the informant, Hollaway presented himself as a member of such groups.

The document states that Hollaway claimed to have spoken with Timothy McVeigh two days before the Oklahoma City bombing. Hollaway critiqued the placement of the truck bomb used in the attack and provided details on the construction of such bombs, according to the document&183;


..FBI inteviews alleged white supremacist about alleged McVeigh call

In this record of an FBI interview with Hollaway, Hollaway appears to confirm the general points raised in the preceding document, including his affiliation with the CAUSE foundation. Hollaway said he received a call on April 18, 1995, from an unidentified caller which had threatening overtones in the context of the following day's events. He claimed that he informed the FBI of the call via a tip hotline on April 20, 1995, and that FBI agents subsequently followed up with him by phone.

INTELWIRE has removed some personally identifying information about Hollaway from the original form due to privacy considerations. Mainstream media outlets seeking more information may contact INTELWIRE for the unredacted page.

Wednesday, January 2, 2008

The Kings of England

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From: WhoIsSparticus
Date: Jan 2, 2008 8:30 AM

----------------- Bulletin Message -----------------
From: d.j.101,, a.k.a. The White Rabbit
Date: Jan 2, 2008 3:59 AM

The Kings of England

The unaccountable people who launched the Iraq war have learnt nothing from it.

go to original
By George Monbiot

If you doubt that Britain needs a written constitution, listen to the strangely unbalanced discussion broadcast by the BBC on Friday. The Today programme asked Lord Guthrie, formerly chief of the defence staff, and Sir Kevin Tebbit, until recently the senior civil servant at the Ministry of Defence, if parliament should decide whether or not this country goes to war. The discussion was a terrifying exposure of the privileges of unaccountable power. It explained as well as anything I have heard how Britain became party to a crime that might have killed a million people.

Lord Guthrie argued that parliamentary approval would mean that intelligence had to be shared with MPs; that the other side could not be taken by surprise (”do you want to warn the enemy you are going to do it?”), and that commanders should have “a choice about when to attack and when not to attack”. Sir Kevin maintained that “no prime minister would be able to deploy forces without being able to command a parliamentary majority. In that sense the executive is already accountable to parliament.” Once the prime minister has his majority, in other words, MPs become redundant.

Let me dwell for a moment on what Lord Guthrie said, for he appears to be advocating that we retain the right to commit war crimes. States in dispute with each other, the UN Charter says, must first seek to solve their differences by “peaceful means”(article 33)(1). If these fail, they should refer the matter to the Security Council (#37), which decides what measures should be taken (#39). Taking the enemy by surprise is a useful tactic in battle, and encounters can be won only if commanders are able to make decisions quickly. But either Lord Guthrie does not understand the difference between a battle and a war - which is unlikely in view of his 44 years of service(2) - or he does not understand the most basic point in international law. Launching a surprise war is forbidden by the charter.

It has become fashionable to scoff at these rules and to dismiss those who support them as pedants and prigs, but they are all that stand between us and the greatest crimes in history. The International Military Tribunal at Nuremberg ruled that “to initiate a war of aggression … is not only an international crime; it is the supreme international crime”(3). the tribunal’s charter placed “planning, preparation, initiation or waging of a war of aggression”(4) at the top of the list of war crimes.

If Britain’s most prominent retired general does not understand this, it can only be because he has never been forced to understand it. In September 2002, he argued in the House of Lords that “the time is approaching when we may have to join the United States in operations against Iraq. …Strike soon, and the threat will be less and easier to handle. If the United Nations route fails, I support the second option.”(5) No one in the chamber warned him that he was proposing the supreme international crime. In another debate in the Lords, Guthrie argued that it was “unthinkable for British service men and women to be sent to the International Criminal Court”, regardless of what they might have done(6). He demanded a guarantee from the government that this would not be allowed to happen, and proposed that the British armed forces should be allowed to opt out of the European Convention on Human Rights. The grey heads murmured their agreement.

Perhaps it is unfair to single out the noble and gallant lord. The exceptionalism of the British establishment is almost universal. According to the government, both the Commons public administration committee and the Lords constitution committee recognise that decision-making should “provide sufficient flexibility for deployments which need to be made without prior parliamentary approval for reasons of urgency or necessary operational secrecy.”(7) You cannot keep an operation secret from parliament unless you are also keeping it secret from the UN.

Sir Kevin appears to have a general aversion to disclosure. In 2003 the Guardian obtained letters showing that he had prevented the fraud squad at the ministry of defence from investigating allegations of corruption against the arms manufacturer BAE, that he tipped off the chairman of BAE about the contents of a confidential letter the Serious Fraud Office had sent him and that he failed to tell his minister about the fraud office’s warnings(8). In October 2003, under intense cross-examination during the Hutton inquiry into the death of the government scientist David Kelly, he revealed that the decision to name Dr Kelly was made in a “meeting chaired by the Prime Minister.”(9) That could have been the end of Blair, but a week later Sir Kevin quietly sent Lord Hutton a written retraction of his evidence(10). No one bothered to tell parliament or the press; the retraction was made public only when the Hutton report was published, three months later(11). Blair knew all along, and the secret gave him a crushing advantage(12).

The discussion also reveals that Guthrie and Tebbit appear to have learnt nothing from the disaster in Iraq. They are not alone. Soon before he stepped down last year, Tony Blair wrote an article for the Economist called What I’ve Learned(13). He had discovered, he claimed, that his critics were both wrong and dangerous and that his decisions, based on “freedom, democracy, responsibility to others, but also justice and fairness” were difficult but invariably right. He called his article “a very short synopsis of what I have learned”. I could think of an even shorter one.

We have yet to hear one word of regret or remorse from any of the major architects - Blair, Brown, Straw, Hoon, Campbell and their principal advisers - of Britain’s participation in the supreme international crime. The press and parliament appear to have heeded Blair’s plea that we all “move on” from Iraq. The British establishment has a unique capacity to move on, and then to repeat its mistakes. What other former empire knows so little of its own atrocities?

When people call our unwritten constitution a “gentleman’s agreement”, they reveal more than they intend. It allows the unelected gentlemen who advise the prime minister to act without reference to the proles. Britain went to war in Iraq because the public and parliament were not allowed to know when the decision was made, what the intelligence reports really said, and what the attorney-general wrote about the legality of an invasion. Had the truth not been suppressed, our armed forces could never have attacked Iraq.

Real constitutional reform requires much more than the timid proposals in the green paper on the governance of Britain, which are likely to appear in a new bill in a few weeks’ time. Yes, parliament should be allowed to vote on whether to go to war, yes the Royal Prerogative should be rolled back. But the prime minister, his diplomats, civil servants and generals would still decide which wars parliament needs to know about, which crimes could be secretly committed in our name. Real constitutional reform means not only handing power to parliament; it also means confronting the power of the cold, unaccountable people who act as if it is their birthright.



2. Lord Guthrie, 24th March 2004. House of Lords debates, Column 731.

3. Marjorie Cohn, professor at Thomas Jefferson School of Law, 9th November 2004. Aggressive War: Supreme International Crime.

4. The Avalon Project at Yale Law School. Nuremberg Trial Proceedings. Vol. 1:
Charter of the International Military Tribunal.

5. Lord Guthrie, 24th September 2002. House of Lords debate, Column 896.

6. Lord Guthrie, 14th July 2005. House of Lords debate, Column 1234.

7. Home Office, July 2007. The Governance of Britain. Green paper. Para 28, p19.

8. David Leigh and Rob Evans, 13th October 2003. MoD chief in fraud cover-up row. The Guardian.

9. Sir Kevin Tebbit, 13th October 2003. Hearing Transcript, The Hutton Enquiry,
para 57.

10. Richard Norton-Taylor and Owen Bowcott, 2nd February 2004. Tebbit’s late change put Blair in clear. The Guardian.

11. ibid.

12. John Kampfner, 2004. Blair’s Wars. pp350 and 364. Free Press, London.

13. Tony Blair, 31st May 2007. What I’ve learned. The Economist.